>> first of all, we couldn't dealt with the debt of the existing medicaid, which is for women, the elderly, children, and the disabled. what medicaid expansion does is expand that to much more of the population, and i could argue for good reasons because they're being served off in the emergency room and so forth, but the dilemma i had was this. in a very short period of time, i would have had to put a brand new democracy -- bureaucracy together at a time period that i couldn't meet. i knew i couldn't meet it. when my current bureaucracy couldn't handle medicaid cost overruns happening. in my state, it was $500 million over projections set forth by the previous legislature and previous governor. over $500 million over projection. that's out of a $20 billion budget.

that's a big hit. there went all my teacher raises right there. infrastructure. so the medicaid expansion is, i think, one of the most difficult issues on governor's plates right now. let me tell you the other issue we are having, and that is that the rules and standards were not written. in fact, even in the last four and five weeks, the administration sent us new regulations on medicaid. no one is talking about if. we got a new reg forces medicaid expansion whether we want to or not in the upcoming year because the any reg came out seven weeks ago saying if a person goes to the hospital. say they can't pay for it, and they might not qualify for medicaid. they can sign up even if they are not under one of the foir or five characteristics of a

medicaid recipient. if they do that, the hospital then, and that person bills the state of north carolina for two months, and after two months, if the state finds out they did not qualify for medicaid, they are taken off of medicaid, but the state still pays for that two months, and that is two months of tests and services that we did not have budgeted, so it's almost an end around the vote by the administration which then says the state has to take 100% of the responsibility so now i have to make a decision. wait a minute, the fed says i get it for free for three years, but after the third year, we have to pie 10%. one of the reasons i didn't do that is because i didn't know 10% of what. 10% of what? we had no idea what the future cost would be, but now that the new reg has come in, i'm in a

very difficult position of what decision to make. we checked the constitutionality of it, and our lawyers says the administration has every right even based upon the supreme court. that comes as a surprise to me. these are the difficult parameters of obamacare right now that are still being rolled out, and, frankly, have not been discussed enough publicly. all the publicity has been on the exciter systems, which everyone knew wasn't going to work. i got my own computer system that i inherited that had been delayed for a year or two by my previous administration. i'm having a heck of a time with the roll out of a statewide system for health care, and the minute we looked at that, the first two or three weeks, said there's no way the federal government can roll this out. i think, frankly, behind the scenes, everyone knew there was going to be an operational breakdown. it goes full circle, ordinary reason and prudence. >> well, i must say you are

outstanding members of your house congressional district who have been really trying to point out challenges. >> yeah, speaker of the house, running for the u.s. senate right now. >> oh, is he? >> he's on the campaign trail, but he comes from ibm and understands operations, so much of the discusses were about is issues, another basic operational issue was that previous administrations and state government, which were the democrats, they run their funding basic maintenance of buildings and is systems, and sooner or later, that catches up to you, and it's easy to build a new building, worry about operations later, but, believe me, sooner or later, your roof for systems needs replaced. >> those things wear out, that's for sure. >> they wear out. mess with capital, operates,

transfer costs between the two, basic accounting no-noes, that catches up to you sooner or later. >> well, listen, one of the big constituencies in north carolina is a constituency that's really important to all americans, and that's the military. talk to us a little bit about some of the challenges you face with such a large number of people serving in the military and the challenges that brings to a state. >> well, it's a challenge, but i see it as an opportunity because as we withdraw from both afghanistan and iraq, you're going to have a lot of military people with technical skills and leadership skills that industry's going to be seeking, so we're setting up, and, in fact, one of the reasons i'm in town today is i'm meeting with the u.s. army, and we're going to be setting up job training programs so when the returning veterans come back, we can use them as recruitment tools for industry, both existing and new industry, to return back to the private sector. now, one of the things we know

we have to do is some of them already know how to fix a car or fix a truck or fix a computer system or do welding, but they have not got the certification, so what we're trying to do is can we jump through the hoops of the bureaucracy and have some military people just test out instead of going through the process of signs up for courses which they can do in their sleep because they've been doing it under fire in iraq or afghanistan. why do they have to go through all these courses? so we're looking at ways we can test them out. we already tested that with truck drivers. we're kind of doing a speed up certification for truck drivers returning from the military and place them immediately in the jobs open in north carolina. >> you know, one of the other places where we heard that is of interest is actually in teaching. some of the veterans are excellent teachers in moving into a classroom. is that something you're

thinking about? >> absolutely, not only for veterans, but we think in the private sector. i have my teaching degree. >> oh. >> my goal was to be a teacher. in the private sector, i was a manager of training for the utility company, so i did teach, adult teaching, but right now, for me to go back into teaching, i'd have to go through a lot of different hoops to recertify my teaching degree. i think i'm pretty qualified. >> i think so. >> in civics at least and a little bit of history. we need to make it especially easier for engineers and math and algebra, people to return to teaching or get into teaching, put them through what we typically require of a college graduate. >> right. well, this is wonderful. i wonder if you mind taking a couple questions from folks in the audience? >> honored. >> we have the microphones, and andrew, you can identify a

questioner for us. please identify yourself, please, and where you are from. >> hi, governor, i'm a reporter for talking appointments memo. >> what memo? >> talking points memo. i was wondering if you could talk about the voter id law, getting attention right now, and, really, what your take on the lawsuit is? it seems like this the second in a number of lawsuits that the obama administration wants to put on stage related to the preclearance standards, so i was wondering if you could respond to that? maybe address how your administration will approach it, especially with roy cooper, planning to run for governor as a democrat, but he says he wants to follow your lead on this. >> well, first of all, i think the erik holder's lawsuit is both political and without mart. our laws have been greatly exaggerated by the "new york

times," very common sense laws, which you have id to vote, 32 states in america do. he didn't sue any of the other 32 states. we still have the exact number of early voting hours open, which the national media does not talk about, as we did before. we're just trying to take the politics out of where you place early voting which was extremely political. in fact, new york does not have early voting. north carolina does. i noticed eric holder's not suing the state of new york. we're very, very -- we have even more transparency in the voting rules. we now, actually, prohibit lobbyists from bundling money, which you are allowed to do in the past, and be the bundlers of money, and we have stricter rules for lobbyists that's often not mentioned, and the list goes on and own an own, but we require a voter idea to get a

tattoo, to get pseudofed, to get on an airplane, any government service in north carolina right now, you have to have an id, and we're -- our legislation is actually offering free ids, and the first election which you have to have these id in place is 2016 election so people have three years to get an id, and, by the way, we still have early voting and voting by mail, which you can do early voting, which you don't need an id on. someone could do it from a nursing home from the mail in this point in time, so i think our voting id laws by the national media, and, yes, by the local media in north carolina has been greatly exaggerated, and a common sense reform protecting the integrity of the ballot box, regarding the attorney general, my comment regarding his is he can have his personal opinion, but as a

lawyer, you should not publicize your personal opinion if you're going to be defending people who are promoting this common sense law. good lawyers don't do that. >> very good, thank you, governor. here, yes, please. >> governor, grace marie turner with the institute for reform. i want to ask you about tax policy because i'm interested in your ideas about tax reform in north carolina. scott hodge and stephen edson, both either worked for or with heritage over many years, have a piece in the "wall street "wallt journal" about the difficulty of tax reform in the federal level, primarily because of the complexities of how it's going to be scored, flat, static scoring. >> i've been through it. >> i know, and i'm interested in how in north carolina, how you intend to get through the barriers to show the incredible economic growth that can come

from lowering tax rates, even though with that scoring, it's hard for budget persons here to -- >> sure. first of all, i've never met a liberal or conservative against tax reform until it hits the one tax break they might get, and i will say this, both liberals and conservatives are hip -- hypocritical on this. criticism is for tax reform, but you better not touch that one. it would be an interest group they were close to, a loophole associated with their business, even a state legislator's business. everyone's for tax reform until it's their loophole we might close, and, you know, right now, you know, we reduced the corporate tax rate and the income tax rater, the two that hinder our competitive way both to retine new businesses, but i

had to step on toes of some people. when you go to a movie now, you have to pay a sales tax. you had to to buy popcorn anyway. we now have a sales tax on movie theater tickets. to make up for the income tax that we reduced. by the way, we now have a tax on newspapers. maybe that's one reason newspapers are mad at me. i don't know. they have not brought up that conflict, but we have a tax on newspapers. it's more of a consumption tax opposed to a tax punishing productivity. i'm an advocate of rewarding productivity. that's the type of tax philosophy i have. you have to sell that. i'm -- i've had my most conservative businessmen say i'm for that, but i can't believe you just closed that tax loop hell on my law firm, but we did because you won't have clients if you don't have any businesses

in north carolina. >> okay. >> that's to let you know you have to sell the long term impact, not the short term. >> well, we like that idea of encouraging people to become -- >> manufacturing, a strong advocate in two areas to emphasize more. we have to be a country, and my state has to be a country that makes things and builds things and innovates things, ag, grow things, produce things. ag is huge in the country. we don't talk about it. energy. we have to have an energy policy. i'm a big advocate of drilling offshore and inland drilling, and i encourage, while i'm dc here, support governor mcdonald and myself and haley to allow us to begin the process off the atlantic coast for natural gas and oil. >> absolutely. so many things we didn't get to, but we'd love to have you come back, and, you know, do another

agenda, but let me just ask you a couple quick questions as we wrap up. you have economic growth in north carolina. things have turned around a bit, and are you feeling good? >> unemployment is down 16%, but we were the third highest unemployment rate in the country. people didn't realize that. we're the sixth highest now. that's not good enough. i'm not bragging about that. i have to be the sixth lowest unemployment rate. that would be, you know, the visionary goal, but north carolina, we've got to unleash the resources, our energy resources, our manufacturing resources, our talent, our universities, our ag, and treat our people as customers, not as adversaries. >> that's a good trend line. one final question. nascar. >> i'm a big nascar fan. mcmurray won, only one wreck at talladega this weekend. >> nascar's big in north

carolina. >> you've been to the hall of fame. >> i have been. it's wonderful, in charlotte. everyone should go and visit that because most people know what they see on television or read in the headlines of the sports page, and they never really get to the understanding. >> well, let me tell you from a business perspective why i'm a fan of nascar and jimmy johnson, jeff gordon, dale, jr., getting well with the blood clot as soon as possible, but let me tell you what the industry does. the private sector jobs. go to rich hendricks machine shop, you can eat off the floor, but there's engineers, engine builders, and what's happening is as mayor and governor, i use the work force to recruit the automobile industry and the defense industry because they can repair things quickly. notice how quick they repair after a wreck? well, that's what the automobile

and the defense industry does, so talent of the people who work on these crews is high-tech, so it's not just for travel and tourism that i support great races we have in north carolina, but it's also to recruit new industry, become a hub of that type of manufactures talent in north carolina. >> well, that's great. we have a creative, innovative, dynamic governor. let's thank him for coming to heritage today. [applause] >> thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> thank you very much, you bet, thank you very much. thank you very much. appreciate it. [applause] >> thanks very much. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> there's no sugar coating it. the website has been too slow. people got stuck in the application process, and i think it's fair to say that nobody's more frustrated by that than i am because, precisely, the product is good. i want the cash registers to work. i want the checkout lines to be smooth because i want people to get this pluck. there's no excuse for the problem. it's -- these problems are getting dpixed. while we work on the kings in the system, i want everybody to

understand the nature of the problem. first of all, even with all the problems at healthcare.gov, the website is working for a lot of people. it's not as quick or efficient as we want, and although the folks waited longer than they wanted, once they complete the process, they are happy with the deal available to them, just like janis is. second, i want everybody to remember that we're only three weeks into a six month open enrollment period when you can buy the new plans. [applause] the insurance does not start until january 31st. that's the earliest it kicks in. no one purchases a plan has to pay the first premium until december 15th, and unlike the day after thanksgiving sales for the latest playstation or flat

screen tvs, the insurance plans don't run out. they are not going to sell out. they'll be available through the marketplace -- [applause] throughout the open enrollment period. the prices that insurers have set will not change, so everybody who wants insurance through the market place will get insurance, period. [applause] everybody who wants insurance through the market place will get insurance. >> we'd like to know your experiences with the health insurance exchanges, what you ran into by going to facebook.com/cspan, experiences good or bad or if you tried to use the health care website yet.

to >> from cbs 62, this is a special michigan matters, the 2016 mayor yal debate. ♪ >> hi there, welcome to a special presentation, the great debate for mayor of detroit. the city that put the world on wheels, but so much changed as confronted epic challenges brought on by a sliping population, tax base, and financial woes. with so much at stake, this election is more vital, which is why we're pleased to welcome the two candidates who want to be detroit's next mayor. they are appearing here in the first televised debate. great to have you with us here. >> thank you. >> for the next hour, we'll hear from them in a conversation we hope provides you a deeper look at both of them.

here at cbs 62 are pleased to partner with wwjd radio news 950 and michigan chronicle in bringing you the important forum. joining me in the question is political pundit, cliff russell, tom jordan, morning news anchor, and senior editor of the michigan chronical. if you are treating or using facebook, use hash tag crbs 62 debate. okay, the rules for the conversation as agreed to by both candidates are fairly simple. each panelists asks a question of the candidate who has 60 seconds to answer. the other candidate also has 60 seconds, and then each candidate has 30 seconds to respond if he so chooses. they kick off with a 60-second opening statement, and by a flip of the coins, mike goes first. >> well, i want to start by thanking cbs 62 for giving us a chance to talk directly to the voters.

i'm running for mayor of detroit because i believe we need change in the city. i was born in detroit. as a young boy, i lived, went to high school in the city, and worked in the city every day for the last 32 years, and i never, in my life, thought i'd see the kind of things we're seeing in detroit today. senior citizens robbed and beaten trying to fill their car with gas at the local pump. children on the street because parks are closed, and once proud neighborhoods overtaken by blithe. we can change these things, but we need a mayor with a proven history of doing turn around, a mayor who makes sure the street repair crews show up to get the lights on, the ambulance and police cars to show up when you call and deal with the abandoned houses. i run because i know we can rebuild a great detroit together. >> up next, we'll hear from the sheriff. >> i want to thank tv 6 # and you, carol, for the opportunity

to present our plans to the people of the city of detroit. leal -- hello, detroit. i'm going to be the next mayor of the city of detroit. we are facing the most critical election in 40 years. this election determines the direction of the community for generations to come. who you select on novak djokovic 5 -- novaknovember5th is critical. i have a plan that is innovative, progressive, visionary, focusing on the quality of life in your neighborhood, the life that we had when i was growing up in this community, livable, walkable, sustainable neighborhoods. neighborhoods that were safe. neighborhoods where you shopped. neighborhoods where you played. neighborhoods that you worshiped in. this is a defining moment for the city of detroit, detroit's decision is up to you. you have to look to the future and pick a leader. >> and now we're going to start with the questioning here. i'll start it off, and the

others joins u row kateing through here. gentlemen, there's one thing you both agree on, the emergency manager. i know if you had your way you'd both like to undo the law, but the fact is, kevin will be the emergency manager for another six months or so after one of you is the next mayor. mike, starting the question are you, and that is, how -- and, again, i had many, many readers and cbsdetroit.com reader asking about this, the emergency manager, how specifically do you plan to work with kevin in the first six months? >> well, the first question is, is he only here for six or nine months because while the governor has said that the emergency manager's going to be here for 18 months, the contract does not say that, but says he's here as long as the governor is appointed. how do we move him out effectively? as long as he's here, nobody has rights, not the voters of detroit, and not the next mayor, and i intend to come in, engage,

not attack him, but come in with a very specific plan, and i hope that the community of business leaders support me join with me saying to the governor we elected a mayor with a strong history, a great turn around team, a very specific turn around plan, and at the earliest possible date, i hope we encourage the governor to send him back to washington, d.c. and return detroit to the legislated officialed selected by the voters. >> benny? >> you know, carol, i maintained he's here illegally. i do not believe the governor has the right to impose will and nullify the will of the people of the community. i'm opposed to it. i think it's illegal. i believe that the federal court will ultimately say that the citizens and democracy will prevail in this community. that being said, the fact is that, you know, we need leadership that is going to stand up for this community. i have a plan. i have a plan that i've

presented 63 pages long. i have not seen mike's plan. mine's there out there for anybody to see. he had hundreds of people working on the plan for the city of detroit. i have a plan to present today, not january, but today, and i think that the citizens of the city need to recognize my plan is there. they can see it today. >> apparently, the sheriff has not attended my ten forums i've done in every district where there's an hour powerpoint with 200 people at a time presenting a plan to rebuild the neighborhood, and when i finish it, the residents take questions for an hour, hour and a half suggesting ideas and adding that to the plan. it's on the website. we have a very clear plan to rebuild this city so that every neighborhood has a future. >> i can show you powerpoints all day long, but i want to see a written document put together by a hundred people that he said he had during the course of the

campaign. he started in no november talkig about the people he had putting the plan together. i have a written document. i also have a powerpoint i put out for people to see. it's all there. i just want to see the documents. >> the next question from esteemed long time political pundit, cliff russell. >> gentlemen, i have a question for both of you. benny, i'll start with you. i want to elaborate on the emergency manager question a bit. >> sure. >> as you both know, voting rights have been aggregated in detroit. elected officials have been nullifieded. democracy in detroit michigan is dead. i want you both to characterize how egregious that is to the citizens of detroit, and as mayor, could you elaborate more on what specifically you'll do to make sure the emergency manager law goes away, and that this can never happen again? >> you know, cliff, i campaigned vigorously against the emergency management law as i did against the right to work. i'm a history major.

i understand the long struggle people had during the civil rights era. i livedded it. my grandparents, from a little town in tennessee, they were sharecroppers. i saw segregation in the hay day. this is the most offensive assault on democracy that's ever occurred i believe in the history of the nation since the american revolution. we must do everything possible to get rid of kevin. he's here illegally. he's here illegitimately, and i, for one, will stand up for the citizens of the community and do everything i can to get rid of kevin because trying to work with him, he's demonstrated he doesn't want to work with anyone. the current major attempted to work with kevin. he's totally disrespected, not just the mayor, but the citizens of the community. >> mike? >> there's no question, what's happening is very troubling. there's a number of short term

consultants making millions of dollars, spending an awful lot of money with no thought as to who is going to run the city department in the long run, and it -- i am concerned about it, and i asked the people of the city, can you point to a single area of city government where your services are better? are the busses on time? are the street lights fixed? are you any safer? i don't believe you are. it is my hope to go in day one and say, i want to see the emergency manager go, but if not, i believe the next mayor should be the chief operating officer. the next mayor, come in, put in the cabinet, put in the long term team, and i want to engage with the emergency manager, and if i'm allowed to put the team together to start to turn the city around, i'll work with him, and if not, then we'll be in an add adversary situation. >> i have no plans to work with kevin. i have not thought about working with kevin. my goal is to get rid of kevin, and that should be the goal of anyone who is truly going to

stand up for the citizens of this community. our right to democracy has been taken away. i don't think there's any community in this state that would welcome having their votes taken from them and impose the will of the governor in the community. i'm against it, remaining against it, and i will fight against it with every ounce of blood in my body. >> this is the difference between us. i'm going to engage from day one. kevin is going to be submitting a plan of adjustment to the bankruptcy court that could potentially take away pension rights of the senior, sell the water department and the like. i'm going to be engaged by day one of my own vision that i'm going to first ask the emergency manager's support, and if not, go to the bankruptcy court saying we don't have to sell off assets, do not have to cancel pensions. do we have to restructure? yes. i'll be engaged from day one, not sitting waiting for him to go away. >> the next question from news radio anchor, tom jordan.

>> thank you very much, gentlemen, for the opportunity. starting with mike. in so many cities in america, they actively seek advice from municipalities across the country showing success in economic growth, curtailed debt, attracted businesses, and lower crime rates, but detroit adopted an isolationist attitude. if you're not born and raised from detroit, don't bother us mind set. do you agree with that, and, two, are there cities in america worth seeking device or shown success as a city you want to seek input from their city leaders? >> you know, there's a lot of cities in the country doing things well, and you always try to learn from those doing it best, but back when i have a prosecutor and the violence in the community was at a terrible rate. the city in new york had reduced

the violence rate as well as the city of boston. i spent time in new york and boston and study what they done, and we brought strategies here and teamed up the u.s. attorney, the atf, the dea, the prosecutor, the police in the state, all together to crack down on every single gun crime to investigate and prosecuted them and if you carry a gun in this county, you are going to prison. last year's prosecutor in 2003 we had the fewest murders in 30 years, but what else in boston is pair with the add ministerial community and the ten point plan with conflict resolution and mentoring services, ect.. we can learn from the communities succeeding and make this a safer city. >> you know, i don't necessarily agree with you that detroit are isolationist. they are proud people who want to be respected. we have had attacks in the city

coming from lansing where the people of the city believe they are under attack. they took away revenue sharing, residency, took away the mayor's office, took away the school system. detroiters are proud people. i don't think they are isolationists at all, but want respect. the second thing relating to other communities, yes, i had an opportunity to meet down with atlanta a few months ago. atlanta was like detroit at one time. it was poor, african-american population, high unemployment, education challenges, crime, and i had a long, long conversation with them. they are doing it right in atlanta, and there's things we can emulate here in detroit. >> anything else to say on that? okay. next question, then, and senior editor of the michigan chronicle writing a book on detroit as we speak with the next question.

>> thank you very much, gentlemen, for being here. you talk about lansing, what the governor has done. this question is to benny, and mike as well. you look at the benton harbor, city of pontiac, majorly african-american communities, under mismanagement. critics of governor snider say it's full of this, and detroit is a major african-american city, not only a defender, but there's activists, leaders saying, you know, if -- it's difficult to see how they come in and take over the city. do you share the opinion and say to viewers that this morning that race is part of the agenda? >> i do know that as we stand here today and discuss the issue, 50% of the people in the state who look like you and i have been disenfranchised by the

state, but there's other cities in the state that have some of the financial challenges like the city of detroit. singling out troy as one. they see financial challenges, but there's no emergency manager implemented there. can you imagine any governor in the country, pick a state like alabama or mississippi or georgia, would have the nerve to go into a predominantly african-american city that was in the heart of the civil rights movement and disenfranchise the majority of the population, that we'd sit back and think, well, it's okay; it's only because of the financial problems. they need somebody to come in and run that city. i think we would be up in arms as a nation and we would be highly offended as well as we should be. >> musician -- mike? >> there's no question what's happening in the state is affecting the african-american voters. it's hard not to feel a sense of

disenfrance chiasment. i can't read the motives as to doing it, but look at the effect, and the effect is disturbing, but what's equally disturbing is the complete failure of the emergency managers in the history. if you look at what's happened in benton harbor, through it over and over, highland park, been through it over and over. when you disenfranchise local voters, there's no evidence that the emergency manager made things any better, and so my objection is two-fold. one it's affecting african-american communities, and, second, there's no evidence it works. >> i find it incredible that my opponent would stand here today and suggest he's offended by the placing of an emergency manager in the city of detroit when we have e-mails that will show not only was he a participant in the discussion regarding the

emergency manager in the city of detroit, but that he was a candidate opposed to being selected, he wants to know be elected. >> this is how dirty the campaign has gotten, to just make things up. those e-mails show i lobbied furiously against the emergency manager. i said it will not work, went there, and lobbied the chief the staff, the state treasurer, the governor's top aids and said you cannot disenfranchise voters. hold off the manager and let the people decide. that's what e-mails show. the truth is i was fighting the emergency manager. >> i think the conversation shows, gentlemen, that the conversation about race, race relations, devicive, the city of detroit, the suburbs, and the state. there was an op-ed talking about the fact he contacted -- supporting mike -- contacted 106

ministers asking for you to speak, and 50% said, no, they did not want that, and they said it was because of the fact you were white. not here to debate that, but the question is having a racial agenda and dealing with issues to bridge the conversation about balance and harmony and how to do these things and, mike, do you have a specific agenda to deal with the issues? >> well, i'm dealing with the issues contactually as i have been. go in people's living rooms day after day and talk to people face-to-face. >> as mayor, would you? >> absolutely. the only way to get to know people and them to know you is talking face-to-face. when you talk face-to-face what divides you goes away, and what you agree on comes to the front. i'm with ministers who openedded doors to me. i'm busy going to the churches that welcome me that i didn't know there were ones that didn't.

they have every right to support me as well as those who don't. i'll keep doing what i'm doing and running on a platform of unity that we shouldn't be dividing. we need to be united. >> i don't think that anyone who has the best interest of the region region at heart suggests this region should be divided on any lines, racial, sexual preference, doesn't matter. we shouldn't be divided. the only way the region grows is that we grow together in harmony, but people need to understand and recognize there's differences among us. we have to be respected for the differences. i've been in and out of homes in the city of detroit for 8 -- 58 years because i've been here for 58 years. i understand how the citizens of the community feel when things happen to the city of detroit down through the years. we have been, since the last 40 years, the citizens of this community feel that they've been

treated as second class citizens in the state of michigan. we need leadership that they are confident, will stapp up for the community, and demand the community is respected as we get along throughout the state. >> you know, it's been powerful. i've been hosted in a number of homes where the house next door's abandoned, and the people say they go to sleep wondering if the house is going to catch fire and spread to my house. i've been hosted by parents with children murdered, and the police have not solved the crime. they say we support you because we know there's a different level of commitment in the city, and in the 48,000 people who believe in change, believe in community, i just say thank you because i do believe we're going to bring change to the city. >> well, frank forming the community is essential. we have serious issues. crime and violence in the community is something that i've lived with daily since i was an adult. i started out putting my life on

the line when i was 19 years old. i continue to do that today, some 40 years later. i've been into the same homes, but i've been in before the victims are cleaned up. i've been in before the people have gone to court. i've seen the devastation firsthand. >> and our next question coming from cliff russell. >> gentlemen, another question for the both of you. again, beginning with you, benny. mayor coalman a. young said there's nothing wrong with detroit, that enough good paying jobs can't fix. it's clear those jobs will not come from the manufacturing and making of cars like it used to. my question is what is your vision for detroit's economy in your administration, and what do you do? >> great question. there's this focuses on

neighborhood, and inside every neighborhood in detroit so it's the community i grew up in, where people live, shop, dine, play, worship, right in the neighborhood where they spend money and attend to the economic anchor is public safety malls because one of the reasons detroit spends money outside the city of detroit is because they don't feel safe. when you put the police, fire, ems with the economic anchors with shopping, dining, entertainment, it grows jobs in the neighbor where people used to walk to work, now they catch a bus and down eight mile to go to work. we need the jobs back in the neighborhood. i have a bold 3.5 billion recovery plan focused not on downtown, but on the neighborhoods where we live. >> this is an example of saying anything. the idea that we are going to build $3 billion of police

stations, malls, and the like in a city that's bankrupt, the idea you draw a circle and say to business people, put your $3 billion here is completely unrealistic. if that worked, they would have filledded the city up 20 years ago. here's the truth. detroit will come back when lots of entrepreneurs start a lot of small companies and feed off each other, and we can do that. just as when i was a prosecutor, i took the abandoned homes from people who abandoned them. take the veigh captain store -- vacant store fronts making available to entrepreneurs for a dollar, tear apart the permitting process, and talk to foundations about a $10 million pool of startup funds. if you want to start a company in the town, there's a means to get funding. we can get 15 and 16 and 17 geralds growing up saying i can start my own company. that's how we come back. >> you know, that's the difference between me and my opponent. i didn't go to the school of i

can't. i went to the school of i can. he says what we can't do. whenever we talk about doing something to transform our neighborhoods, everybody wants to say, we can't do; we can't do. i believe we can. that's the difference. i have vision. i believe the city can grow, be a bigger, stronger, tougher city than it's been, and it's going to be that when we have leadership that believes in the community and does not have a defeatist attitude with the neighborhoods. >> that is exactly the difference. the last time you had a vision was going to the community and executive commission saying i have a vision for a new jail. i want to build a new jail right here, and we're going to save money, and it was a senseless thing from the beginning. didn't check out the numbers or check out the facts, and now there's hundred million dollars under budget and tearing it down. easy to say you're going to do something. when i started, we had 11,000 employees. when i left, there was 14,000 employees. we ought to talk about what we've done, not what we're going

to do. >> the next question from tom jordan of wwj radio news 950. >> okay. thank you. this is for both of you starting with mike this time. what do you do with the elderly woman who bought a nice home in the neighborhoods in detroit in the 1960s, a nice neighborhood you experienced way back when, and since, the neighborhood crumbled. can't afford to move out if she wanted to move out. her home is ransacked by scrappers taking her windows, furnace, the cup boards, one of thousands of stories just like this. how can your specific crime prevention plan address that specific issue to bring these neighborhoods back to life, and people like the elderly woman can again feel safe? >> well, you can go on to my website and see the plan called every neighborhood has a future. the first thing is go back to do what i did as a prosecutor and take the abandoned homes when they are first abandoned and move families into them which i

did a thousand times and fix up homes so we stop the deterioration in the first place. go to the vacant lots, cut the grass, go after the scrap yards buying from the scrappers to take out the financial insentive to do it. on the crime side, the police have to show up when you call, and that means starting to make better use of the offices we have. we have more than 50 officers in presinks filling out payroll, dispatching cars, and we have to take all the available officers we have, get them on the street, and back fill as many other cities do the jobs to the civilians and cut the response time. if we do that together, we can make a difference in the neighborhoods. >> i'll use the first few seconds to answer the question to comment on the jail issue. make, a deputy county executive know sheriffs, employees, and department heads don't build

buildings. the county executive does. the elderly woman you're talking about, that's my mother. she's been in the same house since 1960. i developed a crime fighting plan focusing on making our neighborhoods livable, walkable, and sustainable. i put together a crime fighting plan that reduces crime in the city by 30% when i was the chief of police. i now have a square mile initiative to further enhance the plan and pledge to the citizens of the community that we will reduce crime right where they live by over 50% during my first term as mayor of the great city. it can be done. it's possible. it's necessary. it's about the folks in the neighborhood. >> if you got a crime fighting plan, sheriff, feel free to start. you're the elected sheriff of the county. you've been there four years. you ran for sheriff promising a crime fighting plan to make us safer, and in four years, there's not a single initiative

from your office that's been effective. on that 30% crime cut, we are waiting for the answer for this. what years are you measuring? we can't figure out what year you think you reduced crime. i hope you tell us what years you imagine when you claim success? >> the numbers are on the website. let's talk about crime fighting. i never heard of a person fighting crime, looking out the window of the is -- of the 11th floor. they get from behind a desk, away from the computer, put on a bullet proof vest, he's not equipped to talk about fighting crime. those putting their lives on the line, they are the heros. he can't take credit for the work they did. >> the next question from tompson. >> the citizen doesn't have time to go on the website, does not even have a computer. how different, mike, how different is your crime fighting

plan from benny, and, benny, you can respond. give us a stark contrast here. >> i'm going to go right back to what we did when i was the prosecutor. the sheriff is disrespectful of anybody that's not in the police department. the detroit police are heros and do a phenomenal job, but if the detroit police arrest a prisoner and let them out of the jail, they have not accomplished anything. if the judge does not sentence properly, you have not accomplished anything. the state probation office does not pick them up. you have not accomplished anything. when i was the prosecutor, i went to boston. i went to new york. we adopted the strategies that drove down the violence. we created a team of the u.s. attorney, the aft, the dea, the police, the prosecutor in the state. i'm not running for police chief. we have one. what i'm going to do is take my experience and relationships to make sure that when somebody is arrested for a gun crime,

prosecutorred on the federal side, we go to the state, follow up, and get all of our agencies to work together. that's what brings the crime down. >> the only way it's proved to reduce crime is use proven techniques, crime prevention, policing, enforcement, and a data drip approach to crime. that's proved to work throughout the country. i have a square mile initiative placing police officers in every square mile of the community. that will be responsible for taking care of the quality of life issues that citizens have. basketball courts, get them out. drug houses, get them out. you have stores that are not cutting grass. picking up the trash. write them a ticket. residents causing disrings in the neighborhood, be ad good neighbor. every community leader, every principle, every organization in the community to make sure we

have livable, walkable, sustainable neighborhoods. my plan is focused on where the problems are in the neighbors where the people live. >> i come back to my same thing. if you got a crime plan, you've been sheriff for four years. what have you done to make the city safer? there's all talk. stick 139 officers who are going to solve the street wide problem, the abandoned house problem, take them to responding to people's calls. what happens? you have not fixed the stoplights or the abandoned houses. 139 cops sitting on hold, dialing in and out of street lights that is out, or an abandoned house. they have to respond to calls. >> i've done more in one day as a police officer in the city than he's done in a lifetime. let me just start out with that. the fact is that the only way to reduce crime is as sheriff i

have a program working throughout the entire city of detroit impacting. in the large neighborhood, we reduce this by 200% by just being there two days a month. i've been working, raiding houses, picking up hookers and prostitutes taking care of the community for 40 years. >> we're going to take a quick timeout and be back with the michigan matters special, the great debate, mayors of detroit right after this. ♪ ♪ >> welcome back to the great debate for mayor of detroit, talking with make and benny who are vying to win your vote in the historic election on november 5th. the question is one that many people have been asking, and, benny, let me begin with you. with crime, unemployment, blithe, so many issues going on,

the elected mayor, what's the first issue you will tackle. the first 100 days you have to have a plan to address the issues that are confronting our communities. there's no question. as a lifelong detroiter, affirming detroit as a safe city has to be the number one issue of anyone who takes over the mayor's office. in addition to that, we have some serious issues with our finances. we need to make sure that we do whatever we can to make sure that kevin's tenure in the city of detroit is limited. hopefully, he'll be gone by january 1st, but if he's not, get rid of him and get control of the government, back to the elected mayor of the city of detroit has to be a top priority. you have to focus on the other issues. there's serious issues as detroiters. one of the issues is insurance. detroiters are plagued with the highest insurance rates in the nation so those are the things we have to focus on, getting our finances straight, crime,

blithe, and focusing on insurance. >> mike? >> i think the mayor of the city should be judged on one standard. is the population of the city of detroit going up, or is it going down? if the population of the city of detroit is going down, more people want to leave than come here. if it's imoing up, more people want to come here than leave. i'm going to work very hard to reverse the decline in population in the first hundred days attacking three things. one, cut the police response time. we have to be confident in this city that the officers are going to show up, and right now, the criminals are not afraid. second, we got to repair the street lights. that's an embarrassment to the community to be living in the dark. third, we have to take the abandoned homes as i did as a prosecutor and move families in. if, in the first hundred days people see the police start showing up, the street lights on, and abandoned buildings occupieded, that generates hope and goes on a path that we can rebuild the city the way we want.

>> our next question comes from cliff russell. >> gentlemen, the question for both of you. mike, starting with you this time. we heard about the corporate community stepping up in detroit and buying police cars and making communities to the city, but many residents i speak to fear that those commitments may come with a price that it's essentially a pay to allow them to control real estate, build their own light rail system, build stadiums, take over real estate, take over the lighting department. what are your views, gentlemen, own corporate responsibility and corporate roles in detroit, and your thoughts about tax abatement? >> so, to start with, it's an important to build a coalition including all the community, and i'm proud to have a number of business leaders supporting me and supported by the detroit firefighters, the dpw workers, the plumbers, the health care workers, and grassroots

organizations like the community coalition. they have a place at the table, and at the end of the day, here's what we got to do. we have a lot of growth going on in downtown and in midtown, but we are losing too much population out of the neighborhoods, and so we're going to come back to the plan you will find on my website to make sure every neighborhood has a future, and that means take abandoned homes when firsthanded, move the families in, take the lots, and sell it to the person who's there, and i think what went to do is get many to partner with new entrepreneurs in filling the store fronts. if we do that together, we can bring every neighborhood back. ..

>> the fact is that the question is most important, who is going to focus on the neighborhood. and i believe that we need to focus on neighborhoods and we will grow this community. i do not oppose tax abatement, but i believe that it should be given first to people who are ardea doing business. >> moderator: i will come back to the same question. you have been sure for four years. what have you done in the neighborhood? if you look at the three years that i have spent in the

prosecutor's office, i seized 900 drug houses were we moved drug dealers out end moves families in. and when you replace the abandoned houses, people do well, just like this. napoleon: i would have to deal with the former county prosecutor that knows of the shares prosecution mandate is a part of this court. every city and county has its own police department and they are also responsible for this. but it has worked throughout this community to make it safe. you talk about a few houses, we raided 500 houses per month each month and that comes to tens of thousands of houses. >> moderator: we are continuing

the debate. >> moderator: the relationship that we have what the state, the state capital is lansing and it is very prominent and important and than maybe has been in pastors and very volatile. what specific relationships do you gentlemen have with the specific people in the city of lansing that will have a positive impact on the city of lansing? we will start with you, mr. benjamin napoleon. napoleon: i have worked with folks throughout wayne county and throughout the legislative executives in the 43 communities. also i have worked closely with the detroit delegation and in fact, i have been endorsed and supported by almost all of the delegations, both the house in the senate as well. that is where my strength is, working across the county lines inside that community to focus on issues that are important to

this region. i have a tremendous amount of support throughout this community and i have been in public service now and i have worked with people during this entire time and i unamusing those connections to make our neighborhoods safer and make them more livable and walkable and sustainable because it's really about the neighborhoods and the neighborhoods. duggan: we need to recognize reality that detroit is 80% of the state's population it. if all we are going to do is keep fighting, we will lose as we have another years. when i was a ceo, we were heavily dependent because of the medicare it uninsured patients away dela. when rick snyder was elected in 2000 and the republicans took the house and the senate, i went up and said that we are going to lobby. there was a group of hospitals and immediately started to change the funding formula to move the funding out of detroit to the grand rapids area and i

sat with a new house republican chairman and the new republican senate share and i sat with governor snyder and i showed them objectively. not just the dmz, the henry ford and steve jobs were doing an outstanding job delivering care for the poor in our community. and when it was done, every guy was reinstated back to the city of detroit. we can do it on a bipartisan basis, but we have to work at it. napoleon: that's interesting. let's talk about the fairy tale of the dmc turnaround. if you million dollars came from the governor. huge tax breaks from the account executive and $30 million in fines paid to the justice department for bribes and fraud and kickbacks and was sold to nonprofit hospitals where my opponent got millions of dollars in cash and stock options while hundreds of thousands of people got laid off.

>> it is astonishing how many untrue things he said and 40 seconds, but let's start with this. the $50 million was given to my predecessor before i got there. and when i came in, dmc was on the verge of laying off 4000 people and closing hospitals. we worked together to turn it around. as sheriff mike duggan well knows, my wife and i created a scholarship fund that we give to the children of the dmc employees. >> moderator: their are people coming you have your supporters, there are people who are sending lots of e-mails, saying that we have been a part of the government for a very long time. serving napoleon as the police chief, mike, you are from wayne

county and you came under investigation for corruption. what can you tell voters who are not supporting you and wondering what you can demonstrate to them that shows this leadership. and can you explain yourself from the police department and wayne county? >> i will start within wayne county i was there for 14 years and we balance the budget for 14 years. we have built america together and while there was a member of our administration indicted, the u.s. attorney at the time said very clearly that i had never been under investigation. on the other hand, sheriff benjamin napoleon spent five years in the administration where they had also been under investigation as well. what you really have to look at our results. and people who remember what it was like. when you wait three or four hours, how we came in and turned it around and delivered that in

29 minutes until he went from having almost no cardiology programs one of the best in the country and 11,000 employees to 14,000 employees. now there are $850 million in new investments and that's the kind of results that we need in the city of detroit. napoleon: both of us have been in government for a very long time. mike has been involved in government and the fact is from a leadership standpoint i have always been open and transparent to letting someone come in and look at this agency, to see if we are operating clearly. i have never been afraid of anyone. because i believe that the essence of government, people

should have trust in their government. you make sure that people understand. and i've never been accused of and i'm never sanctioned it. >> is there any response? duggan: no response. >> moderator: congressman cliff russell. >> moderator: gentlemen, i am concerned about young people in detroit. sometimes there are pipelines to prisons in one of the issues that people don't talk about in detroit are the scores. we don't have the recreation centers that we used to have, what commitments can you give us now that as mayor you will make sure that these young people have better opportunities for jobs and recreation for them to

say that you want to create? duggan: i think that it is the center question and there are many things i disagree with, but none more than the recognitions on par. basically part of this are here and we're just going to cut them off and i think that that is a terrible judgment because if we do not provide something for those young people, we will be hiring police down the road. we may not be able to afford this in the future, but it doesn't mean we can have smart partnerships. we have middle schools and high schools and i want to do more where we had kids or $10 an hour at the dmc facilities. eight years later they were

hired as biology mentors and are working full-time jobs at dmc and we need to do more than that for the young people. napoleon: i was not born a privileged child. it was a third-grade education and he talked to me about the great promise of making a lemming. educating our children is the quickest way to lift them out of the circumstances of their end. we have to recognize that our kids come in and this includes educating children in an urban environment that challenge. it's a challenge that i understand. having worked in that environment is ahead of the game unit. thirteen years of my career and

it has to be the strongest advocate for education of any person in this community, including the superintendent. until you get this straight. napoleon: this is one of the few times that we are going to completely agree. the next mayor has to be the best mayor that the school system has ever had and it is hard to teach when the children are not in the classroom. and i want to come back to project genesis. it is my attention but every business leader in this community and say, let's create job opportunities, part-time and some opportunity so that these kids can see what kind of opportunities that there are. the speech he once again i have to say it's a amazing that my poem will say that he is opposed to anyone taking over the

system. so how can you be part of this? the system needs to come back just like city governments so that we can move forward and educate our babies in the city of detroit. >> moderator: not just a fiscal standpoint of reinvention, and geography of where neighborhoods are located, shrinking some of the neighborhoods and so forth, your quick thoughts on the need to shrink the neighborhoods in which neighborhoods should be the ones that would go and what would you do? napoleon: i have gone through all of this and i'm just not certain that i agree with shrinking this from the perspective of putting people i

think about my mother and she's been in our house since 1960 in the neighborhood is not the same as she raised her children. to tell her that she has to leave her house and go someplace else is a little unfair and insensitive and we have to be more creative in what we do. as it relates to urban farming in the city of detroit was once a great metropolis and i think that they can be bad again if we have the vision and foresight to do that. we are going to be bigger and better and stronger. duggan: this is the difference between us. i have a plan. what do you do with the neighborhoods that have only two or three houses on the block? you raise your family in that house and nobody should be pressuring you to leave if you don't want to go. but can we create positive incentives?

so here's what i want to do. we are going to go back and take the abandoned houses that one have one or two vacancies are we going to sell them. i won't have only two or three houses left and i want to say to the folks there if you want to move, we will give you trouble the credit on your house and if your house is with $10,000, we'll let we will let you move into a house for 30,000 dollars. i think that if we create positive incentives, we can get people to do two things at once, villains we can build a population and also allow people the option to move. >> moderator: we have interesting ideas here. napoleon: i want to put anchors

in every community and in every place. i hope to see our city that i grew up in where you have sustainable neighborhoods and you build new houses a new breed of residents in anna has an opportunity to be the great city that was once again. i don't disagree with what mike says, i does have a different attitude spew on monday come back again to a specific plan. when we moved the folks out of here, we are going to sit down and partner with the neighborhood to say what you want to do with that stretch of land and do you want to have a recreation area. we will do two things at once and then we will partner with the community groups to see what we can do to reduce poverty and when we create that partnership, we will start using our land well. >> is january of 2015 and each

of you are part of this at this time. what will be different to the city in their first year? >> it has come back and it is bigger and better and it is prettier and better than it's ever been. i have a core plan of what i want to do. we are going to get the police to show up and we are going to cut that so people feel safe in their homes and businesses. so we can stop living in the dark and then we will start to take these abandoned homes if we can do that. everything i'm going to do a similar and i want to start a city of detroit car insurance program where we offer all of our insurance and it's absolutely ridiculous. the car insurance rates are driving people out of these

neighborhoods. >> again, we are winding down of the questions. it's time for a closing statement here and again by a toss of the coin. mike duggan, you go first. duggan: it has been almost a year that i'd left my job that i love at dmc. it's been extraordinary. i have been campaigning with him deliver him, backyard to backyard, church to church, and i have been greeted with more than kindness in every corner of this community. it has not all been easy. i got thrown off the ballot and in every place i went the people in this city said we can do this. and we saw some dirty tricks in a suit me, they brought in the barber, people said don't worry, 48,000 people spelled my name properly and i want to say thank you and i promise you one thing. but if you'll trust me, i will fight just as hard the next four

years as your mayor to help build the detroit for the people that the city deserves. napoleon: this is a serious election. i have a neighborhood and revitalization plan that is online and it is going to revitalize this community that has never been seen in 50 years. it is a way to make this city memorable and walkable and sustainable once again. let me just say that my opponent says that he has been coming in and out of detroit the last 32 years. how many here see him in the last 32 years and when he was sleeping, he put on a bulletproof vest while he was sleeping and this includes carjackers and break-ins and we

were getting rid of those incorporated and i was taking flags off the coffins of slain police officers. >> moderator: i want to thank you both for taking the time to be part of this. that includes the first televised debate here between mike duggan and benjamin napoleon. we hope you learned a bit more about them and i want to give my thanks to cliff russell and mr. thompson. you can watch the debate again on our sister station at 5:00 p.m. on sunday, october 27. you can also listen to it again on our raise radio this tuesday, october 22. the next conversation will take this place on wednesday, october 23, of which i'm pleased to moderate. thank you for being with us. ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ >> in a few moments, a look at both parties, political and legislative agendas in the wake of the government shutdown. in about 45 minutes, north carolina governor, cory talks about challenges facing the states. after that we will show the debate again between the candidates for detroit mayor. later, a national press club speech by george two >> a couple of live events coming up on the c-span network. employee health care benefits

and implementation on c-span. here at 11:00 a.m. eastern, pakistan's prime minister will speak at the u.s. institute of peace. he is expected to address u.s. pakistan relations and regional stability and counterterrorism. >> i never ask another question. i think it is insulting to the person that you want to talk to, and it creates a bad impression about what you are doing. you are asking for someone's time because you need information that will lead you to a better understanding of your subject. sometimes you get negative information when you really don't want it and you haven't even asked for it. i know because i have been known to call it in honor of the first lady. she says on a wide you are

calling because you want to repeat those nasty things and nancy reagan was saying about barbara bush. [laughter] actually, all i really wanted to find out was how much money the senate wives had raised for mrs. reagan's drug abuse fun. in a telephone call come i got more than i asked for it and i used every single word. [laughter] >> presidential history and intrigue in american culture biographer kitty kelley sunday, november 3, on booktv is's in depth. look for other guests, including christina hoff sommers on december 1 and talkshow host mark mcguinness. right now in our book club, other viewers including john lewis. see what others are saying find

out more at booktv.org/club. >> a look at both parties political and legislative strategies and what to look for from the obama administration. "washington journal", this is 45 minutes. >> we are now five days removed from the third longest government shutdown in u.s. history and the political fallout continues to be assessed to help us do that this morning. we are joined by steve mcmahon and brian walsh and brian walsh, let's begin with you. but what are republicans taking winwood or the right lessons and also farther the wrong lessons that republicans are taking away from mass. >> we are having a little period of self-evaluation to figure out the best path forward both politically and this was a tremendous mistake and one that could have been avoided. i'm glad that the election was

13 months away and not three months away because republicans have a great opportunity to win back control of the senate. and i think that we really shot ourselves in the foot on that one. but the silver lining is that we are still on the offense and a range of states around the country and the obamacare rollout has been by all accounts a disaster and democrats will have to be held accountable for that. >> we are getting into the map and what the field looks like in 2014. the colleagues of the republican parties are talking about the lessons. are there wrong lessons that you're hearing as well from folks it is not a conservative policy to give federal workers a two weekaid vacation. so i think that hopefully this will prevail going forward. but we live in a world where some compromise is going to be necessary. we only controlled one half of

one branch of congress and the we need to be focused on the longer-term world of winning back the senate next year. >> so what has really changed for democrats as of today? congress passed a budget that was below what they originally wanted and the sequester hasn't been turned off and we are still seeing a divide in congress with fights ahead. what has changed? >> and if you look at that, that is about as big as a lead that they have had in the last 10 years. the election is 30 months away, but to give you perspective, i think 54 seats, i think it's an advantage and that's what they have today. that includes republicans

putting themselves in a hole and it is self introspection that is going on in his right. but what was left out was the house of representatives, which exactly the same house of representatives that was last week. and ted cruz, is exactly the same guy and he will do anything including shutting the government down as well to get his way. so i think that we will see if cooler heads prevail and other mainstream establishment republicans are the cool heads here. so the tea party is a hot little pot and right now it is part of this into the ground. >> there are a lot of things being made in the republican party and is the split bad as some are saying. >> i also think interim discussions like this are not necessarily a bad thing.

this is not the first time that we have seen it and republicans give away five senate seats because of bad general election nominee is and it does concern me, which is why the good news is that this happened 13 months away from the election and there is an opportunity. >> coming up in january we are looking at other budget deadlines down the debt ceiling deadline if we have a similar type of fight and there will be ramifications? >> i think that we should overlook that they have this and they are as a number of things out there today that the of approval ratings dropped 4.5% which is a historical low.

obamacare continues to be a disaster as things roll out. senators like mary landrieu and mark begich are going to have their hands full trying to explain why premiums are going up and people are losing their health insurance and these are continuing. >> this is an idea of a split between tea party and establish republicans. a surprising number says that if they lose this presidential election, they will formally split into a moderate party and the conservative party. >> i think it is pretty bad and brian is right about the five nominees that they produced in 2010 and 2012 who gave away these feeds and the challenge is that not that much has changed.

they are the people that produce these nominees in colorado and some of the other states where there are six republicans who are facing the challenges and those are more likely to be the tea party thai people than the mainstream rational republicans like my brian and mitch mcconnell, and that is what the republican party has to face. that and that any democrat goes into a presidential election and you can be discreet with the numbers. any democrat entering the context of about 242 electoral votes that are pretty well guaranteed. maybe it is 238, but they don't need very many more to get to 270. republicans start with about 170. so there is a structural visit managed it somehow.

anytime the mainstream to get behind a candidate, that sends a signal for the tea party that it's time for us to come out because the establishment is trying to put us down. ask a guy who probably would've easily won a senate seat to be the nominee and he was beaten. when the national republican party committee came to his aid late in the primary, that just turned up for the other side. so this is from a democratic perspective great to watch. but the country needs a functioning party in order to get policies passed in congress. as long as the tea party is running the house of representatives, we don't have that. >> for the next 35 minutes we are talking with steve mcmahon, attorney and cofounder of purple strategies llc. and he's a strategic advisor and

here are a few folks that you worked for. >> we worked for senator ted kennedy a long time ago and for their i have worked for jerry brown and others, howard dean and the number of folks you have heard of and many more that you probably haven't heard of as well. >> brian moss works for singer strategies and maintained townhouse strategies llc and a few other members. >> for the last eight years. it's been a long time since then and that working for a handful of different members. >> if you have questions, our phone lines are open. republicans can call the numbers listed on your screen. republicans, democrats, and independents. we will start with jeff from

downey, texas. >> caller: how are you doing today. >> great. >> i just want to make a statement here. i am a conservative. i don't know if i am a tea party or not. but what i don't understand is why we have to sit back and watch our republican friends have a 70 billion-dollar bill only know that all it will be a $17 billion and that is the moderate republicans folding to the democratic party. this is the stuff that is happening. i was one of the people that were surveyed and said i was disappointed over the shutdown because i see you folding up to a month ago. let's not shut the government down next time, but let's not raise the debt ceiling. we bring in $250 billion per month and if we cannot live on

$230 billion a month, then we are way over budget and we should not be doing this. >> so what do you think the republican party showdown is like your. >> he raises a very valid concern about the debt. under this administration, the debt has increased by 60%. it is about $17 trillion and a huge problem. defaulting on the debt would be disastrous for the economy and there are ways that republicans have been successful in three sequestration and other efforts to cut back spending. that is also part of the problems and if you decided to go with us strategy that we have really lost our leverage. if republicans had received a more pragmatic strategy. >> let's talk about obamacare that we talked about you and the

president is having a speech this morning in the rose garden at 11:25 a.m. to talk about the problems of health care.gov. the republican strategy when it came to focusing this, it was something that was talked about yesterday of the shows i want to play a little bit of that and come back to you. >> show how obamacare doesn't work, fly to its core, so have a little bit of self-restraint. it might actually be politically a better approach to see the mass of the function and that we don't even hear about it because we have steppe on a message and i think republicans need to just take a step back and show a little self-restraint and let this happen a little bit more organic way. >> we are talking with a republican strategist.

did they miss play the rollout of obamacare? >> they did, it's a missed opportunity because it should have been part of this rollout. my plan is being cleared and train canceled and i might have to re-enroll in higher plan because of his health care lock. particularly with the same thing. and we have to step on that message and that's where the focus should have been. so we have a long way to go and it's ironic that the president is making another speech because a couple weeks ago he was comparing it to kayak.com and amazon and honestly they overplayed their hand. >> i think he needs to start by apologizing and saying that this is a working but it is a program

that they decided that they didn't want her democrats decided that people will decide the program that they need. we are aware of that and we know people have been trying to get on and get coverage and that a order for them to make these preparations, rolling it out, state-by-state, probably done something different. you will live and learn and the president is a very smart guy and we have the capability that he they saw from the campaign to put up a digital operation that is unrivaled in political history and kayak is one of the great websites and it is something that had a ramp up

period and even fewer use it. that probably was a tactical mistake. and it will be impacted by how the website works the first few days and this will take some time to fix and it will take some time to demonstrate what democrats believe is the case and now for the first time people can get insurance. people who are graduated from college who don't have a job or insurance can see on their parents plan. so there are great things that people will be able to see through to the line that hopefully will happen soon. >> we have a political roundtable talking about the shutdown and showdown of obamacare in the affordable care act and we will get into this

subject of immigration as well of what the next steps are for the white house and members of congress and i want to bring in someone from texas for the line for democrats. good morning and you are on with brian walsh. >> good morning. the president plays republicans like a a felon and he hits him over the head like a hammer. he wants a long-term deal on all of these shutdowns and the debt limit. a lot of them say no, we can't do this. january 15 at the very fit. but i will tell you that they will be filing for their tax returns and they're not going to shut down the government and hundreds of millions of people will pick that up in the president hits him over the head with a hammer and they still don't know why. thank you. >> brian walsh, if you like to

talk about some of the frustration we have seen out there in the polling numbers and what do you think that will translate to in the 2014 election. >> i think people are angry with both parties right now and i recognize the president's poll numbers dropping right now. people expect both parties to make the tough decisions here in washington, but i think the president needs to start showing some leadership and that is one thing we're not talking about here. social security and medicare are going to run out of money in the next 20 years and we need to have these reforms have both these programs and it requires leadership from the white house. and that's something that we have. >> where do you think the leadership will go from the white house and how can we talk our way of restarting this on capitol hill now? >> the white house is going to lead the joint committee is chaired by paul ryan and patty murray from the house of

representatives, this is that video that is set up. it is where speaker boehner left off in 2011. in discretionary spending can be all of us i presume the paul ryan will have to make some of those things known that they are on the table and that patty murray will talk about what we can do to generate a little bit more revenue, which does not necessarily mean individual rates. it might mean incorporates have to change. there are things that have to come into balance. one thing that most democrats relative to how much it takes in and there's going to have to be changes in that balance whether it's less spending or more revenue were maybe a little bit more of both. the white house is interested in immigration reform and i think that there is a case to be made

that republicans who are thoughtful understand need for immigration reform and recognize the political reality that continues to be against any kind of reasonable reform and it will continue to probably get 29% of this under control there's a good reason to do it on the policy grounds. but it's also a really good reason and i'm just not so sure that the republicans in the house of representatives represent either of those facts. >> republican congressman labrador says it is important and i am a proponent of immigration reform. he is trying to destroy the republican party and i think that anything that we do right now with the president on immigration will be on that same goal in mind which is to destroy

the republican party and not get good policy. >> i would respectfully disagree with that. >> it's not just good politics but the policy as well. conservative senators like marco rubio and others have supported this effort. my view is that if house republicans part of this, this might not be an opportunity that can pass and here we are six years later in the can has been kicked down the road and we have speaker boehner and eric cantor who understand that and i think they will try to move forward. >> do you think that they can explain it to congressman like mike labrador and other tea party republicans who say that if you open up any kind of immigration reform, the borders are going to get open and we will be overrun with immigrants? >> i think that marco rubio is

showing leadership on this issue and i agree with you that it's a little tough right now. but i think that hopefully the last few weeks will be a learning moment. and you look ahead at august 2014, but i think that republicans have to pick up senate seats. i'm looking ahead at 2016 the republican party has shifted over the last eight years against the party and we need to be working long-term. >> we are taking calls and comments today. frank is from pensacola, florida. you are on with brian walsh and steve mcmahon. >> my first question is, is it true that senator ted cruz was born in canada and not the united states, and i think everyone says that as a part of

this executive branch, paying over $113,000 in continuing to pay for the social security, how much more would that add to it. it is to make sure that everyone participates at the same level. >> mr. walsh, we are giving i.t. was. >> i don't know if there's any question, he is an american ineligible to run to president. >> senator mccain was born outside of this country but this is a moot point. >> barack obama was actually born in this country, yet the public and to give them credit for that. >> i think this is a moot point. i think there's no question. i agree with steve, i hope that this joint conference committee with paul ryan and patty murray

can produce some kind of compromise that can pass both chambers. president bush tried to tackle this and democrats of a political issue of blocking that. so that was another missed opportunity and i hope that we don't kick the can down the road on both issues. >> this is a suggestion that some have made. they should lift the cap and that seems to be something that is fair, and i think that most americans would agree it is fair and i think the republicans would probably block that. >> going back to the affordable care act. we had a tweet just now who said the elephant is in the room and it is the failure. steve, does someone need to be

fired over the problems we have seen and they have been called much worse? >> i think someone needs to be held accountable, whether it's something above my pay grade. kathleen sebelius is a nice symbol for the republicans go got there because she was the secretary of health and human services and obamacare went into effect. but i'm guessing she wasn't very involved in the technical rollout or specifications with the buildout of this problem system. so i think it's -- you know, she's probably the only name that people are aware of and i'm guessing the folks are really responsible for this and who should be held accountable are pretty far down the food chain and i think you'll probably be held accountable. >> of your raises a good point that there is a good story in the washington times there is a

gunrunning of "fast and furious", their scandals, like this one today, if you're you are hard pressed upon the president having held any the members of his administration accountable on us, i think republicans have a right to question and be angry about that. >> that's all we need is more republican anger. [laughter] >> we have a man from jacksonvjacksonv ille, florida on the line for republicans. you are on with steve mcmahon and mr. walsh. >> caller: good morning, mr. walsh, am i speaking to you this morning? >> yes. >> i am a staunch conservative woman of color. let me tell you before the host cut me off, let me make a couple of points, when i want to get up there against the other gentleman and just lie down to what he says, that they have talking points and they are trying to destroy us, stand up,

let them know about this medical plan -- this socialized medical plan. it's going to kill us. i got my first retirement for my company working 30 years of labor and i've never had to pay anything except in golden state with my company and only a small co-pay is all i have to pay and now they are asking me for a policy premium payment. they want to kick us off so that we can go out on the system out there, and all of our privacy is getting out there. >> ma'am, how would you like to see republicans react last week during the shutdown and showdown. >> i wish i could shake the hand of mr. ted cruz. he is standing up to these democrats, they are liberals and socialists and i'm going to

preach about this right now. >> giving you a chance to respond. >> as i said earlier, i'm someone who actually lost their health insurance plan and i am angry about this. how you change the policy goes by winning elections, and that is what we need to keep focused on. winning back the senate and the white house in 2016. the problem is it's very esy for certain senators to tell people what they want to do. leaders sometimes tell them what they want to hear. for us to have done anything so in terms of defining obamacare, it was a strategy with a predetermined outcome and we only had 45 seats in the senate right now. we would've needed 22 democrats to override a presidential veto. it was was not going to happen, and i think it's unfortunate that a lot of conservatives were misled by a few members of

congress. >> at the risk of not seeming combative enough, i completely agree that the republicans out there want to change this policy and it's not to have a temper tantrum and shut down the government. but to win some elections ago when i say let's fix it. >> the map in 2014 will be fixed seats for republicans to take it and is at 17 seats for them? it is seen as the tougher climb for one party to take over. >> before two weeks ago, it was going to be a pretty tough situation. after what just happened, i think americans are saying, do we really want to give these guys more power and we really want to continue and extend their ability to shut down the government and we want to award

the behavior that we have seen over the last two weeks and these are the questions of the voters are asking themselves, even in those woods stu rothenberg, who counts the feeds as well as anyone, they would say the same thing that the house was a difficult spot for democrats. now you look at the number of seats that are in play by his estimation, 24 are pretty actively in play now from 122 weeks ago and we need 17 and you are democrats to take the house and it could be a lot more by the time this is over. especially thick cut down the government again. >> that includes if the don't lose any seats in the next election as well. do you think the house is in play? >> i think many agree that it's still very upheld for the democrats. especially the way that these districts are drawn. there's great opportunity for them to win back the senate. and i think there's a great story about the conundrum facing

democrats who voted for the health care law and those who continue to say everything that is okay with this law or speak out against them. that is the conundrum there. and they own it, they voted and so this is going to be a referendum in folks who are running in red streets like mary landrieu in louisiana and mark prior and others will have their hands full with why they voted for this lawmaker. >> they are astute politicians and they got themselves elected to the senate and they will do both and say if you look at the polls, people who don't think obamacare is the best idea, even those would prefer to fix it than to repeal it. there are many people who think that obamacare was in a good idea because it didn't go far enough. so i think that the politicians will say that it's a good program and we need to give it time to work. the medicare prescription drug benefit was passed and there were a lot of democrats i didn't like it and they complain until

they discovered that senior citizens like that and that is one of the things that people who are explosive as well have that it's not the republicans what they have said that what they have told them it would be and they would not be screaming for repeal. it doesn't mean that there were the things that we wouldn't need to fix that the president acknowledges. >> we have a republican strategist this morning. going to shone out from wheeling, pennsylvania on our line. good morning. >> my first question is that i want to know what the republicans are going to do when hillary clinton runs. >> they are going to lose. >> i know that. that will be as a part of that. that some white people will vote for hillary. my second point is that i am a liberal and a proud liberal amounts what i want the democrats to stand up for.

we like to share and there's nothing wrong with sharing for our fellow americans. have a blessed day. >> we have michael hirsh and hillary clinton, welcome to the white house coming no democratic challenger or opposition force. >> i think that the vice president could take issue with that. but first of all, we are a long way away and we don't know who'll be running on the republican side. i think chris christie has provided a great model for the republicans. it is a very democratic state and chris christie stands to win reelection here in a few weeks and i think that he has provided a good model and that is something i don't think we can ignore. it's been under the surface as we go through entitlement reform and there is a very real danger for the democrats in their parties as well.

>> there is an individual on twitter that says no conservative policy agenda beyond rejecting this and what is wanted. >> i would say that i do think it was a mistake for the republicans last cycle and i thinkthat they rely too heavily on opposing the stimulus and we need to start going back to what they have talked about, jobs, keeping the economy moving forward. i believe as we get closer to the election you will see more and more of that in the individual candidates in states around the country like in arkansas and a few candidates in alaska and some of those others that are running will run it in a positive way as well. >> that is like a recitation for what they are talking four.

ronald reagan couldn't get nominated because he didn't meet the litmus test of the tea party's. but the challenge going forward is that it's not just the party of ronald reagan anymore but it is the party over tim pawlenty improves. that probably isn't going to last. but it will last long enough to keep a civil the civil war going all the way through the republican presidential nominating contest which will produce a nominee that can possibly appeal to the middle who will decide the electionspirit when we look at this thing to republicans that one, democrats really try to make kentucky competitive a few minutes ago. and that is when we see how they are going to go on the offense of, it's very unpopular and they have this big problem on their

hand in big states. >> etc. when you ran the committee and one of the tea party challenges, due to one of the six senators that have to face these primaries. mitch mcconnell did the right thing. but it's a difficult thing that he did with respect to his primary on saturday, talking about all the tea party people and the extreme republicans who vote in the primaries. >> it is the wealthy guy has decided that mitch mcconnell is very conservative but is not conservative enough and the republican tea party crowd in kentucky was complaining vocally and loudly in kentucky about the sellout that mitch mcconnell has become. because he is in a primary it is a difficult thing for him to do, but he did the right thing for the country and will be punished

for it in kentucky. >> i'm praising him for what he did. >> what does that mean? >> what about the general election challenge to . >> in one sense if it doesn't kill you, it will make you stronger. in the other words, the energy drains makes them weaker candidate in the democrats have a weak candidacy and it is a possible democratic pickup and a possible democratic pickup because of the problems that he has with the tea party. >> first i want to comment about mitch mcconnell. yes, the conservative and tea

party members have a hit out on mitch mcconnell to take a 3 billion-dollar kickback to sign a bill. it's the most disgusting thing. when a democratic stands up and praise his mitch mcconnell, that really says something. but as far as ted cruz goes, he is on the best things ever happened to the republican party in the tea party. he's a man of honor that ran on his word and said he would try to stop obamacare and he did exactly what he reemploy. we are tired of the corruption.

there a lot of problems with christine o'donnell. unfortunately they weren't talked about in the primary. they should. how do you -- [laughter] >> guest: there were a whole age of problems. she hasn't paid her taxes and there were all sorts of things. that didn't get brought up. but senator mcconnell is taking his primary and particularly the general i riously as he should.